French Sécu, French Taxes
Some time ago I offered to try to help Gregor clarify the complex French tax and social security systems for the benefit of SOAF members. How do English people who move to France become registered fiscally and with the health service (and obtain that necessary Carte Vitale?) The report which follows covers my own findings and conclusions and please bear in mind that I am a literary agent and not a lawyer or accountant!
A person who moves to France and acquires a principal residence here, who works here, either freelance or in employment, will probably have to register as a tax payer here and will need to register with the Secu for health care. A salaried employee will possibly be given help and advice by their employer, as after all the employer has to pay contributions on their behalf, so they should be able to register with the CPAM and obtain their Carte Vitale without problems.
It is the freelance person, the position of most writers, who has a more difficult time.
The self-employed freelance writer cannot register with the CPAM. Nor can they expect help from the NHS in the UK – I think this is a good place to mention that the E106 health entitlement certificate available to EEC citizens is only intended for short visits, holidays. The E121 is available to an EEC citizen who is sent to work here, in another country, by their employer, say a British company. It is therefore for someone seconded to work in a different EEC country, a migrant worker! So where do you go?
AGESSA is the organisation for creative people, for writers and artists among others.
They have a very good web site, and I am pasting below the link to the page for authors
http://www.agessa.org/getpage.asp?NUM=6&RUB_CODE=14&RUBCODEPREC=3
But the web site is in French. To apply, there are forms to be filled in and details of income to be attached and they will assess whether the applicant actually qualifies.
Should the applicant not qualify, then there is another organisation for professions liberales, CAMPLP for people who live in the country, “en province”:
http://www.plp.le-rsi.fr/
And there is its counterpart for people who live in the Paris region, the CAMPLIF
http://www.secuartsgraphiquesetplastiques.org/site/organismes/o_08.html
Again, these sites are in French. But AGESSA and CAMPL would be the organisations to approach.
In my experience, and I have heard the same from others, the easy way to deal with registering as a taxpayer is to seek the help of an official at your local tax office. In my case, this person completed the form with me the first year and I have been able to complete them on my own ever since.
My own situation is that I work for my own, British company and as a director of that company, it is deemed appropriate that my personal fiscal domicile remains in the UK.
Nevertheless, in that position and given that my principal residence is in Paris, I am still obliged to file a normal annual tax declaration in France to which I attach the form 2047-K which is the declaration of earnings abroad, but in terms of the double-taxation agreement between the UK and France, I am exonerated from paying tax over here.
Since Taxe d’Habitation (and the television licence fee) are both linked to the tax declaration, your Taxe d’Habitation will be assessed, expensively, as a residence secondaire if you do not file a tax declaration here.
After the age of 65, an individual may become registered with the CPAM and obtain the precious Carte Vitale by arrangement with the NHS in the UK. The application is made through the NHS as part of the agreement between EEC countries, where the UK agrees to reimburse France for the cost of this health care. The individual will then be asked to declare, annually, that their situation has not changed and show proof that they are in receipt of a UK pension. The advantage is that since one no longer contributes to the NHS after official pension age, even if one continues to work, one does not have to pay French “cotisations”.
I have been given the name of a firm of American/French accountants who would be able to explain the system in detail in English. It might be a good idea to ask this firm to send someone to address a meeting – which could be written up and sent to members who cannot attend in person. I have not yet approached them so have no idea what the fee would be, but the cost would have to be divided between members who would like this advice, so please indicate your interest to Gregor.
Shelley Power
3 June 2008
A person who moves to France and acquires a principal residence here, who works here, either freelance or in employment, will probably have to register as a tax payer here and will need to register with the Secu for health care. A salaried employee will possibly be given help and advice by their employer, as after all the employer has to pay contributions on their behalf, so they should be able to register with the CPAM and obtain their Carte Vitale without problems.
It is the freelance person, the position of most writers, who has a more difficult time.
The self-employed freelance writer cannot register with the CPAM. Nor can they expect help from the NHS in the UK – I think this is a good place to mention that the E106 health entitlement certificate available to EEC citizens is only intended for short visits, holidays. The E121 is available to an EEC citizen who is sent to work here, in another country, by their employer, say a British company. It is therefore for someone seconded to work in a different EEC country, a migrant worker! So where do you go?
AGESSA is the organisation for creative people, for writers and artists among others.
They have a very good web site, and I am pasting below the link to the page for authors
http://www.agessa.org/getpage.asp?NUM=6&RUB_CODE=14&RUBCODEPREC=3
But the web site is in French. To apply, there are forms to be filled in and details of income to be attached and they will assess whether the applicant actually qualifies.
Should the applicant not qualify, then there is another organisation for professions liberales, CAMPLP for people who live in the country, “en province”:
http://www.plp.le-rsi.fr/
And there is its counterpart for people who live in the Paris region, the CAMPLIF
http://www.secuartsgraphiquesetplastiques.org/site/organismes/o_08.html
Again, these sites are in French. But AGESSA and CAMPL would be the organisations to approach.
In my experience, and I have heard the same from others, the easy way to deal with registering as a taxpayer is to seek the help of an official at your local tax office. In my case, this person completed the form with me the first year and I have been able to complete them on my own ever since.
My own situation is that I work for my own, British company and as a director of that company, it is deemed appropriate that my personal fiscal domicile remains in the UK.
Nevertheless, in that position and given that my principal residence is in Paris, I am still obliged to file a normal annual tax declaration in France to which I attach the form 2047-K which is the declaration of earnings abroad, but in terms of the double-taxation agreement between the UK and France, I am exonerated from paying tax over here.
Since Taxe d’Habitation (and the television licence fee) are both linked to the tax declaration, your Taxe d’Habitation will be assessed, expensively, as a residence secondaire if you do not file a tax declaration here.
After the age of 65, an individual may become registered with the CPAM and obtain the precious Carte Vitale by arrangement with the NHS in the UK. The application is made through the NHS as part of the agreement between EEC countries, where the UK agrees to reimburse France for the cost of this health care. The individual will then be asked to declare, annually, that their situation has not changed and show proof that they are in receipt of a UK pension. The advantage is that since one no longer contributes to the NHS after official pension age, even if one continues to work, one does not have to pay French “cotisations”.
I have been given the name of a firm of American/French accountants who would be able to explain the system in detail in English. It might be a good idea to ask this firm to send someone to address a meeting – which could be written up and sent to members who cannot attend in person. I have not yet approached them so have no idea what the fee would be, but the cost would have to be divided between members who would like this advice, so please indicate your interest to Gregor.
Shelley Power
3 June 2008
posted by SOAF Chairman at 3:49 AM
4 Comments:
This is very useful, thank you-- but as a US citizen, I would be interested in hearing the perspective of someone who knows the situation from a Franco-American standpoint.
We are actually consulting an American accountant.
Anna J Mews has forwarded me the following correction to Shelley's article: --
Shelley's article states:
'The E121 is available to an EEC citizen who is sent to work here, in another country, by their employer, say a British company. It is therefore for someone seconded to work in a different EEC country, a migrant worker! So where do you go?'
As a matter of fact, the E121 is for any UK citizen of pensionable age (can't remember if it's actually for 65 and over, or simply 60 as long as you're in receipt of a UK State Pension). With an E121, the Carte Vitale is v. easy to obtain - I got one with no difficulties at all. In fact, it took a couple of months and even before then I had temporary 'attestation' almost immediately.
Anna Mews
Shelley has just forwarded me the following comment on the E121:--
The comment about the E121 - is correct now. I had my original E121 through my work and then had to reapply under a changed status after 5 years which conveniently was the same time as I obtained my UK state pension. So I reapplied as a pensioner but I can't put my hands on the copy of the application. Whether that was still E121 or not, that was a couple of years ago, and now it is definitely E121. UK pension age is currently 60 for women and 65 for men.
I have just found a comprehensive article for EEC citizens and am pasting the link:
http://www.frenchentree.com/fe-health/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=30725
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